Why is there no Martial Arts? - Guild Wars Forums

Raumoheru · Apr 02, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

With the latest Beta Event the new Monk animation for dancing and for flexing are obviously Martial Arts based, so why are there no Martial Arts in Guild Wars? It would definitly make for a much better Primary Only attribute then Divine Favor which is just a weaker combination of Healing Prayers, Protection Prayers, and Smiting Prayers. If they have Special Defensive and Offensice Skills that would make playing a Monk much more fun.

Loviatar · Apr 02, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

maybe next chapter

worthless · Apr 02, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

divine favor is a pretty good primary attribute

Kha · Apr 02, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Monks are not meant to be healers, casters and martial artists/fighters. They are mostly healers/protectors with some smiting/offensive magic. If you want to get into being physical, then you pick warrior for your secondary. If this attribute was added, you could go with Mo/Me or M/E for example, and the "Martial Arts" attribute would be close to having Tactics. Would be like three professions in one and doesn't sound very balanced.

Getting rid of one of the best (in my opinion THE best) primary attribute in the game would be... well... stupid, especially to replace it with an attribute that would completely contradict what the monk is. It would be nice if they did have a martial artist profession in the future expansions. It would compliment the monk and other professions nicely. If Divine Favor was truly just a weaker combination of the others, why would anyone use it?

There's a difference between "fun" and "easy".

MoldyRiceFrenzy · Apr 02, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

dunno maybe theyre saving it for a primary profession next chaptor or somthing.??

spiritofcat · Apr 02, 2005, 10:20 PM // 22:20

In many other action RPGs monks are martial arts fighters. But as has been said over and over again, Guild Wars isn't like other action RPGs, it tries to do things differently. So I agree that monks should stay the way they are, but I wouldn't be adverse to seeing a martial arts based profession in the next chapter.

HotSnack · Apr 02, 2005, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiritofcat

In many other action RPGs monks are martial arts fighters. But as has been said over and over again, Guild Wars isn't like other action RPGs, it tries to do things differently. So I agree that monks should stay the way they are, but I wouldn't be adverse to seeing a martial arts based profession in the next chapter.

I'll have to agree. If GW followed everything by the book, then Rangers would be a bunch a dagger/short sword wielding dex fighters, and if that happens then what will the future Rogue class in expansions do?

Monks in GW are the designated healers anyway, so I see little point in bunging martial arts into them (they already have Smite after all). And I'd rather see martial arts as a fleshed out class than a single line attribute. Even then, if they were to include one I'd rather give them the time to make a better thought out one than the usual 'poorly equipped warrior' that plagues most games;

Why what's that? You can set your fists alight with Ki you say? My, that took you to be lvl 50 to do you say? Oh what's this? Why, it's my +100 Flaming Sword of Doom. Oh, your fists only go up to +60 even with your Ki buffs? The please, take my sword. Oh no, don't worry, I have a bunch of these swords back when I was lvl 40...

Raumoheru · Apr 02, 2005, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Why what's that? You can set your fists alight with Ki you say? My, that took you to be lvl 50 to do you say? Oh what's this? Why, it's my +100 Flaming Sword of Doom. Oh, your fists only go up to +60 even with your Ki buffs? The please, take my sword. Oh no, don't worry, I have a bunch of these swords back when I was lvl 40...

and what is that supposed to mean?

@ Kha

Monks in the D&D games all have martial arts and it does not unbalance the game.

and please, tell me, how is divine favor in any way usefull?

i think the stregnth for warriors is the most usefull primary attribute so far because it adds armor penetration which makes them deal more damage.

Kha · Apr 03, 2005, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raumoheru

@ Kha

Monks in the D&D games all have martial arts and it does not unbalance the game.

and please, tell me, how is divine favor in any way usefull?

i think the stregnth for warriors is the most usefull primary attribute so far because it adds armor penetration which makes them deal more damage.

Monks in a lot of games have martial arts, but that's not what the monks in GW are designed to be. They're not fighters, they are healers. They are more or less priests in a unique way. Just because something has the same name doesn't always mean they are supposed to or should be identical.

Divine Favor has some great skills (Aura of Faith, Peace and Harmony, Signet of Devotion) and has one of the best passive traits to it. It adds healing to your spells even if they aren't healing spells. You can cast protective magic and heal your ally as a side effect, or cast healing magic and add to its power.

And the armor penetration of Strength is nice, but it is conditional in that the higher the enemy's armor, the more worth you will get out of it. It's still a great attribute and it does have some great skills too, but I think Divine Favor, Expertise and Energy Storage are better primaries (not necessarily in that order).

HotSnack · Apr 03, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raumoheru

and what is that supposed to mean?

If you read the text above it, you'll see it's to illustrate my point that a lot of the times, monks (not talking GW here) are the poor man's warrior. What they gain in innate abilities they lose out on in using certain armour and weapons. Sometimes this gap is very apparent, especially in loot heavy games.

Raumoheru · Apr 03, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53

so is it safe to say that most of you would NOT want to have martial arts?

i just like fist fighting and dont like how a char is only as strong as the gear he carries (warrior)

Kha · Apr 03, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raumoheru

so is it safe to say that most of you would NOT want to have martial arts?

Not have it with the Monk profession? Yes.

Not have it in the game? No. Would love to see another profession in a future expansion with it.

HotSnack · Apr 03, 2005, 02:09 AM // 02:09

I have no problems with unarmed combat, rather just how it is usually implemented.

If it was to be included, then it'd have to be taken at a different perspective than just 'warrior without weapons'. An unarmed class can't do more damage than Warriors (you'd make Warrior players cry, after all), so instead they need to take up a different role on the team.

Off the top of my head, an unarmed class instead make up for it being able inflict most status effects, and with ease. That and maybe have their own unique 'grappling' ability that allows them to do some interesting things such as holding an opponent, only to have both become vunlerable to extra damage because of it.

Kha · Apr 03, 2005, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotSnack

I have no problems with unarmed combat, rather just how it is usually implemented.

If it was to be included, then it'd have to be taken at a different perspective than just 'warrior without weapons'. An unarmed class can't do more damage than Warriors (you'd make Warrior players cry, after all), so instead they need to take up a different role on the team.

Off the top of my head, an unarmed class instead make up for it being able inflict most status effects, and with ease. That and maybe have their own unique 'grappling' ability that allows them to do some interesting things such as holding an opponent, only to have both become vunlerable to extra damage because of it.

Yeah. This would be the problem of adding another physical type character. What should his/her attacks be focused on? I do like the idea of a sort of "grappling" kind of moves focused more on status effects and interrupting your opponent rather than just holding them in place. But if the Martial Arist (or whatever you want to call it) focused on, say, the "weak" points of its foe, you could have it doing special moves that add conditions and/or interrupt skills. Then you might have an interesting build... but wouldn't it be like a physical mesmer and necromancer? You need the Martial Artist to provide something unique to the professions of GW, and I'm too tired to try to think about what that would be any longer, lol.

Bousiris Hierophos · Apr 03, 2005, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

An unarmed class can't do more damage than Warriors (you'd make Warrior players cry, after all), so instead they need to take up a different role on the team.

It always bothered me in other MMORPGs I've played, to see monks do more damage with fists than a warrior or other armed character could ever do. A martial arts class could be focused on some sort of staff or knuckle weapon, though ...

Actually, here's a new profession idea I was kicking around. Criticism is welcome (and probably inevitable).

But it's an idea for another physical-type character somewhere between the D2 assassin and GW ranger.

I call it:

ACROBAT
A lightly armored melee class with some multi-tasking skills. Specializes in stealth and dexterity-based (yes I know there's no DEX in GW but you get the idea) fighting at melee distance, rather than at range.

Attributes for this character could be something like:

Martial Arts - would include attack skills, evades, etc.

Staff Mastery - would include special attacks when using baton or staff type weapons.

Dances - special "dances" the character performs that would have various spell effects, e.g. summoning spirits like ranger nature rituals, or enemy caster disruption.

Balance (primary attribute) - reduces energy cost and/or casting time of non-spell attack skills and dances.

There would be a certain degree of jack-of-all-trades to this character, high versatility with mitigated effectiveness. But personally I'd love to play a character like this.

I hope the GW devs are reading this ...

DarkWasp · Apr 03, 2005, 03:36 AM // 03:36

maybe instead of martial arts they should do the vulcan death grip thing.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 03, 2005, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Why aren't there Ninjas in the Lord of the Rings?!

spiritofcat · Apr 03, 2005, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotSnack

Off the top of my head, an unarmed class instead make up for it being able inflict most status effects, and with ease. That and maybe have their own unique 'grappling' ability that allows them to do some interesting things such as holding an opponent, only to have both become vunlerable to extra damage because of it.

Yes, I like that idea.
How about martial artists that focus not on dealing damage, but on distracting and inconveniencing the enemy.
For example, as you said, grappling, or holding the enemy still while the other players attack, or attacking pressure points to weaken the enemy.
Also imagine a very fast martial artist who could easily get in there with kicks and punches that do little damage but interrupt spells or have a chance of disarming the opponent.

Mango Midget · Apr 03, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Monk needs taekwondo.I am a black belt and it fun.

There should also be the class of Assasin

Kirbie · Apr 03, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

in guildwars, monk is considered supportive profession.
warrior receive/deals damage, monk heal/buffs.
warrior needs monk, monk needs warrior.
if monk can do decent melee with martial art...no one would choose warrior.
and monk would no longer depends on warrior for protection.
martial art monk already having good healing with protection skills will make a monk superior melee profession.
As other people appreciates monk for healing...monk appreciates team for protection.....great team spirit as guildwars is designed for skills and teamwork

damage dealing is fun...but in guildwars, healing/buffing is also fun too.
you will probably really busy healing people rather than go melee and do martial art stuff.

i think the reason ArenaNet put martial art as monk's dance is to show true nature of monk. monk is considered highly disciplined. and they symbolize that traits through performing martial art as dance.
just my thoughts.

p.s: to use martial arts as distraction...i think thats where mesmer is used for...to distract.

Apr 02, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58	#1
Raumoheru Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2005	Why is there no Martial Arts? With the latest Beta Event the new Monk animation for dancing and for flexing are obviously Martial Arts based, so why are there no Martial Arts in Guild Wars? It would definitly make for a much better Primary Only attribute then Divine Favor which is just a weaker combination of Healing Prayers, Protection Prayers, and Smiting Prayers. If they have Special Defensive and Offensice Skills that would make playing a Monk much more fun.

Apr 02, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24	#4
Kha Sins FTW! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Guild: Angel Sharks [AS]	Monks are not meant to be healers, casters and martial artists/fighters. They are mostly healers/protectors with some smiting/offensive magic. If you want to get into being physical, then you pick warrior for your secondary. If this attribute was added, you could go with Mo/Me or M/E for example, and the "Martial Arts" attribute would be close to having Tactics. Would be like three professions in one and doesn't sound very balanced. Getting rid of one of the best (in my opinion THE best) primary attribute in the game would be... well... stupid, especially to replace it with an attribute that would completely contradict what the monk is. It would be nice if they did have a martial artist profession in the future expansions. It would compliment the monk and other professions nicely. If Divine Favor was truly just a weaker combination of the others, why would anyone use it? There's a difference between "fun" and "easy". __________________

Apr 03, 2005, 04:23 AM // 04:23	#17
Weezer_Blue Elite Guru Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Just a Box in a Cage Guild: Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]	Why aren't there Ninjas in the Lord of the Rings?! __________________

Apr 03, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28	#20
Kirbie Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2005	in guildwars, monk is considered supportive profession. warrior receive/deals damage, monk heal/buffs. warrior needs monk, monk needs warrior. if monk can do decent melee with martial art...no one would choose warrior. and monk would no longer depends on warrior for protection. martial art monk already having good healing with protection skills will make a monk superior melee profession. As other people appreciates monk for healing...monk appreciates team for protection.....great team spirit as guildwars is designed for skills and teamwork damage dealing is fun...but in guildwars, healing/buffing is also fun too. you will probably really busy healing people rather than go melee and do martial art stuff. i think the reason ArenaNet put martial art as monk's dance is to show true nature of monk. monk is considered highly disciplined. and they symbolize that traits through performing martial art as dance. just my thoughts. p.s: to use martial arts as distraction...i think thats where mesmer is used for...to distract. Last edited by Kirbie; Apr 03, 2005 at 06:31 PM // 18:31..

Apr 02, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00	#2
Loviatar Underworld Spelunker Join Date: Feb 2005	maybe next chapter

Apr 02, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06	#3
worthless Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TX	divine favor is a pretty good primary attribute

Apr 02, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43	#5
MoldyRiceFrenzy Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Guild: Confusion in The Ranks[tArD] Profession: Mo/W	dunno maybe theyre saving it for a primary profession next chaptor or somthing.??

Apr 02, 2005, 10:20 PM // 22:20	#6
spiritofcat Jungle Guide Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Guild: Order of the Sanguine Dragon [OSD] Profession: E/Mo	In many other action RPGs monks are martial arts fighters. But as has been said over and over again, Guild Wars isn't like other action RPGs, it tries to do things differently. So I agree that monks should stay the way they are, but I wouldn't be adverse to seeing a martial arts based profession in the next chapter.

Apr 03, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53	#11
Raumoheru Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2005	so is it safe to say that most of you would NOT want to have martial arts? i just like fist fighting and dont like how a char is only as strong as the gear he carries (warrior)

Apr 03, 2005, 02:09 AM // 02:09	#13
HotSnack Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Feb 2005	I have no problems with unarmed combat, rather just how it is usually implemented. If it was to be included, then it'd have to be taken at a different perspective than just 'warrior without weapons'. An unarmed class can't do more damage than Warriors (you'd make Warrior players cry, after all), so instead they need to take up a different role on the team. Off the top of my head, an unarmed class instead make up for it being able inflict most status effects, and with ease. That and maybe have their own unique 'grappling' ability that allows them to do some interesting things such as holding an opponent, only to have both become vunlerable to extra damage because of it.

Apr 03, 2005, 03:36 AM // 03:36	#16
DarkWasp Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Paradise Guild: Agency Of Forbidden Fruits [Oot] Profession: R/A	maybe instead of martial arts they should do the vulcan death grip thing.

Apr 03, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48	#19
Mango Midget Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Under a hippo. Guild: TC Profession: Me/W	Monk needs taekwondo.I am a black belt and it fun. There should also be the class of Assasin